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i think /mute should be given to vets cuz there are sometimes where there are no ops+ and people spam chat like today couple min ago there was a spammer and we had to get an op online which is why i think /mute should be given to veterans thanks for your time

What thats a not a good idea we dont want more demotions bc i think there will be mute abuse between u veterans just saying thats my opinion.

tylerthecreator5 wrote:i think /mute should be given to vets cuz there are sometimes where there are no ops+ and people spam chat like today couple min ago there was a spammer and we had to get an op online which is why i think /mute should be given to veterans thanks for your time

I will not give /mute to someone who types like that thank you very much.

type like what sanjar??

tylerthecreator5 wrote:type like what sanjar??

He was referring to your lack of punctuation and grammar.

Back when I was veterinarian, I remember that vets had the ability to use both /mute and /patrol (I know you were only suggesting /mute, although I just feel like adding in /patrol). However vets have constantly abused the "/mute" command. Those with the "/mute" command were able to mute people of the same rank and I would constantly see other vets muting themselves or muting me for no reason and in some cases; not unmuting even if it was just a joke. I do know that now people can only mute lower ranks (not equivalent or higher) although when it was available to vets, they were muting people without actual reasons. There may have been some vets at the time who were using it properly, but I don't remember any specific examples.

**This is not to insult any or all veterans, just felt like throwing this out there**

Also I apologize if I some how derailed this topic and/or if it sounds like I'm having the final say or anything. Which I don't.

I just wanted to add in what I remembered back when I was vet to this discussion .

ABadAnimator wrote:Back when I was veterinarian

Poor animals.

Speaking of /patrol, I do want that for vet+.

Speaking of /mute, I don't actually want that, I'm crap enough at responsibility

barrowboyjames wrote:Speaking of /patrol, I do want that for vet+.

We don't

barrowboyjames wrote:Speaking of /patrol, I do want that for vet+.

Then create your own server and make it Vet+.

Seems like you're demanding also, rather than suggesting.

Not a vets job to actually patrol. Catch the occasional griefer, yes. Go looking for griefers, no.

KingCrab wrote:Not a vets job to actually patrol. Catch the occasional griefer, yes. Go looking for griefers, no.

Is that actually intended? De facto a majority of vets focus on patroling and alot of vets are doing it well. The maiworld would probably consist of some random blocks floating in the air if they didn't bother to moderate.

regarding /mute for vets: There have been some occasions where some people were intensively communicating via some ugabugalesian language and no Op+ was around... one of those talks was followed by an discussion about invalid kick reasons . Tbh I don't see a reason why not to give Vets /mute - it's a rather weak command compared to other moderation tools they have access to (/ban).

DreamingInsane wrote:

barrowboyjames wrote:Speaking of /patrol, I do want that for vet+.

Then create your own server and make it Vet+.

Seems like you're demanding also, rather than suggesting.

Sorry 'bout that, didn't mean it to look like I was demanding it

Wundsalz wrote:

KingCrab wrote:Not a vets job to actually patrol. Catch the occasional griefer, yes. Go looking for griefers, no.

Is that actually intended? De facto a majority of vets focus on patroling and alot of vets are doing it well. The maiworld would probably consist of some random blocks floating in the air if they didn't bother to moderate.

regarding /mute for vets: There have been some occasions where some people were intensively communicating via some ugabugalesian language and no Op+ was around... one of those talks was followed by an discussion about invalid kick reasons . Tbh I don't see a reason why not to give Vets /mute - it's a rather weak command compared to other moderation tools they have access to (/ban).

Believe me, it did not work out.

Because if we give them that, they would get all other moderation commands. All the commands are under permission nodes. Think of them as groups, and vets have the basic form of it, and ops have the rest. We do not want to turn veteran into op.

Ollieboy wrote:Because if we give them that, they would get all other moderation commands. All the commands are under permission nodes. Think of them as groups, and vets have the basic form of it, and ops have the rest. We do not want to turn veteran into op.

Good point, I don't patrol often enough for the advanced commands, and neither do most of the others. Veteran demotions are common enough!

I probably use /pat once a week, or on special occasions. I don't see why people get so excited about it, tbh.

Ollieboy wrote:Because if we give them that, they would get all other moderation commands. All the commands are under permission nodes. Think of them as groups, and vets have the basic form of it, and ops have the rest. We do not want to turn veteran into op.

*sigh*
those nodes are an annoying design flaw of fcraft.

I don't get why Veterans just appreciate what they have.

They have their own worlds(veteranxx) to build in, they at least have freeze, kick, and ban.
A good draw limit for drawing penises.

And you guys got brushes now thanks to fragmer. Why do you keep asking for more? :<

Wundsalz wrote:

Ollieboy wrote:Because if we give them that, they would get all other moderation commands. All the commands are under permission nodes. Think of them as groups, and vets have the basic form of it, and ops have the rest. We do not want to turn veteran into op.

*sigh*
those nodes are an annoying design flaw of fcraft.

Then why dont you go design your own server software. I think they're great, otherwise you would have to set permissions for every single command, which is a lot.

DreamingInsane wrote:And you guys got brushes now thanks to fragmer. Why do you keep asking for more? :<

The people who complain about everything usually don't last long on the server.

Learn to walk before you run.

If you are a good moderator without all the advanced commands, you will be an even better one as an OP (if you choose this path). Veterans are a "junction" rank so they get a bit of both worlds to decide what they like doing best but no change in command availability will be made. It's enough that they are able to kick and ban.

I have also questioned the usefulness of the /mute command in the past and while fragmer finally gave in due to popular demand and fCraft being used by many different administrators with different philosophies, to me EVERY instance in which you'd have to /mute a player could and SHOULD be resolved with a kick instead. /mute serves no purpose apart from letting the player stay on the server and rage even more that he/she had been muted, opening the doors for physical griefing with absolutely minimal "moderation" benefits.

Following this path leads to even more aberrations like "prisoner" ranks or the recently suggested /ghost command.

As a long time moderator/administrator across multiple games and genres I strongly believe that the only tools you need are kicks and bans and probably a way to demonstrate your admin status to underline your authority (colored text/nicknames and such). Everything else is just icing on the cake or plainly redundant - apart from /freeze, which I may have opposed in the future but which I agree is excellent in the context of Minecraft with "speedhacks" and the constant drop-in-drop-out sandbox mode that makes for gameplay (you just need to get the players attention and make him/her listen for a moment while they can't continue what they were doing =).

P.S. It really isn't that much of a permission nodes issue as it is an ideological one.

Scrathy wrote:The people who complain about everything usually don't last long on the server.

True, but I'm not complaining, I love /brush! 'Tis the best command in my opinion. I'm just saying it's a good idea, not making a statement that we don't have enough commands

barrowboyjames wrote:

Scrathy wrote:The people who complain about everything usually don't last long on the server.

True, but I'm not complaining, I love /brush! 'Tis the best command in my opinion. I'm just saying it's a good idea, not making a statement that we don't have enough commands

Don't have enough commands?

What more do you want? Veteran is decent enough as is.
like Lim_Dul said, the rank gives the best of both sides.

Exactly what I'm saying!

barrowboyjames wrote:Exactly what I'm saying!

Derp, I just realized.

This is just my two cents here, and I know I'm still new to being vet, but there are times I'd rather be able to just mute somebody then have to worry about getting demoted because some troll kept posting every stupid thing he could think of and the kick command looked a little too tempting. I can definitely see some vets abusing this to mess with each other, but there are times it would seriously come in handy for when there isn't an op+ online.

Like earlier today, we had two trolls (AmericanVita and Aus-something or other) who decided every stupid thought they had in their head, along with some of the occasional letters, was chat-worthy, and since no op was around, we had to deal with that while trying to talk to guests who needed help or dealing with griefers. Needless to say, after about 10 minutes of that, I couldn't have been happier to have a kick command. But my main issue with whether or not vets should have mute is if we can't have it (like now), I don't want to have to worry about possibly getting demoted over kicking a stupid troll.

xN8Gx

If you've warned someone to stop trolling repeatedly, then it's okay to kick them. Trolling is a form of griefing, and is not tolerated.

Oh. Well in that case, I don't really care if vets have mute. I mean, it would help to shut trolls up when no ops are on, but it's not something I need.

i agree