Tekkit - Venting My Thoughts

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StainlessBlood
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Tekkit - Venting My Thoughts

Post by StainlessBlood »

WARNING: Long winded thoughts and opinions below may upset those with weak constitutions, women who are pregnant, or those prone to bouts of rage. <--- Trying to start this off on a lighter mood because by the end of reading, this if anyone does, their mood could get progressively worse.

Alright, since I'm sick of hearing stuff secondhand from people about what's going on I want a central topic for the current state of affairs with the Tekkit server to lay out everything that's going on and what will happen. If I offend anyone, well, time to get over it because I'm entitled to my opinions and people need to start hearing some blunt opinions and this is pretty much the only way to be heard around here is by posting it.

We all know things could have been done much smoother and better, but what's done is done at this point, and I'm not going to attack anyone for doing things and ignoring the issues until a later time. I'm just going to vent out my thoughts and opinions on the whole situation of the way things are.

It's my understanding that once again we face yet another map wipe, even though it was stated that everything would be done in the power of the higher ups to keep it for as long as possible. A map wipe is not a good backup solution every time something doesn't go according to plan, or because something wasn't done right and has to be fixed, or because something was just ignored, or because something was enabled that shouldn't have been, or because an exploit in a plugin was found probably by sheer luck.

If people can't be trusted to not have exploited things or not to have abused something we should punish everyone including those who have spent hours/days doing stuff in the true blue spirit of fCraft, doing shit legit, by erasing what they've done and making them start from scratch again? You really wonder why people are upset? After what 4 map wipes now, after 4 attempts to start the same project over and over again, after 4 attempts to do the same thing, over and over again, we are expected to just keep quiet and except everything and every decision as they come.

I'm tired of decisions always being made for the players without the players getting an iota of input, and even then when there is some we'll sometimes just be ignored and overruled without any formal explanation. What happens when this occurs? A game isn't just made by the content it contains, it's made by the people that play it, the community of it all. When the community is left in the dark on stuff and decisions are made that effect the community without them knowing or being able to participate in such decisions the result is people getting upset and leaving said community.

If the ultimate end is wiping a map now, and in the future after all such considerations have been made then it should be the job of the higher ups to try and find a way to still appease the players of the community by allowing even if in a limited fashion a continuance from one map to the next of a player's build(s) and of their machines and tools. Meaning that even if a map wipe is necessary then allow people to take what they worked hard on from one map to another.

For example: I didn't get to point again to have a build finished to want a transfer for one but I did spend lots of time getting the 4 MV solar arrays, 4 MFSU's, 1 Quarry, and at least 2 of each of the other standard machines like induction furnaces and the like, as well as 2 stacks of glass fibre cables. Is it really such a problem to let me and others take half of the above, i.e. 2 MV solar arrays, 2 MFSU's etc, etc from one map to the other as well as some of the tools like a mining laser and a wrench. Is it really so much of a hassle to have some people take some time out and transfer some stuff between maps for people. Being allowed to take this over would satisfy me, and others because at least this way we can get back on our feet quicker and start our building projects faster. Do not start spouting any nonsense about it needs to be fair to the new players that join and everyone has to start equally. We all started fair and equally at one point to others we did our fair share of it by now. New players are always at a disadvantage.

If their is this sense of admins don't want to spend the time transferring people's crap for them, then all I have to say is give me the ability to do it, I'd be more then happy transfer people's stuff even if it took me an hour or two to do so. If everyone else that is capable of doing these things is too busy to do so or just plain old doesn't want to give people that can, and that can be trusted, the ability to do so for you. Again its always about keeping the community happy, because they make up everything there is.

To conclude, I'll say again, if anyone has been upset by what I've said well sorry to hear but, sometimes people need to hear it. I know that at this point people have been frustrated with the decisions made and I'm just trying to say find a way to appease the players and not lose the people that make up the Tekkit server community. By transferring only a few machines, solar panels/arrays, some fibre/cables/wire, and a few tools and a build here or there you can at least make the process of a map wipe less aggravating, less annoying, and less wasteful of everyone's time and might help people to not just give up on fCraft's Tekkit server.

If you want to support my thoughts or if you want to tear me a new one, the reply button is somewhere around here, go for it. I said everything I've needed and wanted on the subject.

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Re: Tekkit - Venting My Thoughts

Post by StainlessBlood »

10:48Hit-Sleep 90% sure there won't be a wipe now
Ok, even if there isn't a wipe now the above is still how I feel on the whole subject of tekkit, the map wipes, and the like.

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Re: Tekkit - Venting My Thoughts

Post by McLaughlinKid »

I agree with you. I think we should be able to transfer over builds and/or items. We have been able to do so in SMP before. I don't see it being much of a problem.
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Re: Tekkit - Venting My Thoughts

Post by burn22 »

I totally agree here with Stains opinions and this surely has to been said.
I was about to write a bit more, but after I did read Hits qoute I think there is no
need for this anymore.

But again. I totally agree with Stain.

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Re: Tekkit - Venting My Thoughts

Post by dobby_ashy »

Il give you a better solution, play offline mode. Picking out people who abuse the system or glitches cant necessarily be singles out, the higher ups don't have mind powers which can tell them who is abusing what. Eg if someones spamming the shit out of lightening ring, get rid of it. Will kill the possibility of it happening more.

Like i said, if you don't like it, leave and find somewhere else, or go and play offline. That would have saved your rage-post.
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Re: Tekkit - Venting My Thoughts

Post by Element_Equinox »

The mark of the frustrated community...right, well I'll try to shed some light on the issues I'm aware of.

First, the wipe was suggested (not sure if it will happen or not, I've heard multiple things from multiple people) because there was a bug in the server that allowed people to get access to blacklisted materials and there were suspicions that a few people had exploited that. There were also flaws in the code for logblock and LWC, but to my knowledge, those have been fixed/could be fixed without a wipe. The driving issue behind the suggested wipe was the bug. I understand that people are frustrated by the idea of starting over. Part of the dilemma here is that people who exploit this bug could abuse EE to get a massive influx of very powerful items, or just get a ton of materials out of thin air. People would be able to make whatever machines/systems they wanted without any real work at all, which obviously misses the point of what we were going for when the Tekkit server was being made.

There has also been talk of blacklisting mining turtles. The reasoning behind this is that if one person makes a code for a mining turtle, they can turn around and tell anybody they want how to get it and how to use it. So the entire server could potentially run off the same code that one person put the work into making, which a few people argue that it makes mining turtles more overpowered and more unbalanced as far as gameplay is concerned.

Part of the issue with item transfers is that if someone got access to blacklisted materials, then we obviously don't want them transferring them over to the new map. So if we did decide to implement them, we'd obviously have to be careful with what we were bringing over. If they are allowed when the map wipes, either now or sometime in the future, then admins will definitely be there to help.

These are the current issues being dealt with afaik. We're not trying to keep everyone in the dark, we're just trying to get the server to run smoothly so people can enjoy the game. If you have any questions, just talk to us. We all pretty much suck at keeping secrets here anyway. :wink:

EDIT: Dobby, there's nothing wrong with people being frustrated. They wanted answers to what's going on, and they're frustrated with some of the things that have happened. We don't need to them to leave because of it.
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Re: Tekkit - Venting My Thoughts

Post by burn22 »

dobby_ashy wrote:Il give you a better solution, play offline mode. Picking out people who abuse the system or glitches cant necessarily be singles out, the higher ups don't have mind powers which can tell them who is abusing what. Eg if someones spamming the shit out of lightening ring, get rid of it. Will kill the possibility of it happening more.

Like i said, if you don't like it, leave and find somewhere else, or go and play offline. That would have saved your rage-post.

Thank you for a totally useless reply.

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Re: Tekkit - Venting My Thoughts

Post by Ninjacat101 »

dobby_ashy wrote:Il give you a better solution, play offline mode. Picking out people who abuse the system or glitches cant necessarily be singles out, the higher ups don't have mind powers which can tell them who is abusing what. Eg if someones spamming the shit out of lightening ring, get rid of it. Will kill the possibility of it happening more.

Like i said, if you don't like it, leave and find somewhere else, or go and play offline. That would have saved your rage-post.
That wasn't really addressing the issues as Stain was giving feedback on what his issues are with the server and how they could be rectified and I'm sure his views do not just reflect his opinion as he has spoken to quite a few people about this.
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Re: Tekkit - Venting My Thoughts

Post by PrestoBlue »

I agree with that, stain
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Re: Tekkit - Venting My Thoughts

Post by dobby_ashy »

Its not a totally useless reply, and it does adress the issues brought up. The higher-ups will do what they need to do if someone is abusing the system. I gave you a solution, play offline. Whether you think im a dick for putting it out there is your problem, but that "totally useless post" had a solution. It takes time to fix things and sort it out.
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Re: Tekkit - Venting My Thoughts

Post by burn22 »

dobby_ashy wrote:Its not a totally useless reply, and it does adress the issues brought up. The higher-ups will do what they need to do if someone is abusing the system. I gave you a solution, play offline. Whether you think im a dick for putting it out there is your problem, but that "totally useless post" had a solution. It takes time to fix things and sort it out.

Thank you for a totally useless reply, again :3

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Re: Tekkit - Venting My Thoughts

Post by Hit-Girl »

dobby_ashy wrote: Like i said, if you don't like it, leave and find somewhere else, or go and play offline. That would have saved your rage-post.
If I understand correctly, you've not even played on this tekkit map thus is easy for you to say that, but regardless, everything that stainless stated is spot on.
He, and everyone else, has EVERY right to be pissed off.
dobby_ashy wrote:Whether you think im a dick for putting it out there is your problem, but that "totally useless post" had a solution. It takes time to fix things and sort it out.
You clearly have no idea of the situation in hand, hence why your input is redundant and unneeded. Tekkit had the best part of Two months to iron out bugs. It then had another 2-3 wipes, which shouldn't of happened. You see, all of this, should have been done, ages ago; but wasn't, for one reason or another, so WE the players suffer because of it.

Also, from my understanding as stain quoted earlier, there will be no wipe now. Having said that, I can't reliably say that until Ollie/Rwojy confirms it.
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Re: Tekkit - Venting My Thoughts

Post by StainlessBlood »

dobby_ashy wrote:Stuff
1) Your solution was clearly not thought out, because for one you didn't even try to come up with one that is central to my original post and two you're "better" solution may work for you but I don't like playing with myself. It just shows us that you don't really even care about the Tekkit server or the community by telling the people who feel the way I do to just get lost, the idea is to find a solution that keeps people playing on the server together not by themselves. It'd be like suggesting people to go play solitaire on their computer.

2) Also the reply you made was relatively useless in this regard because the idea is not to break up the community, telling them to leave if they don't like it. You want to leave go right ahead, oh wait you already did, then why are you giving input on something you should care less about?
Element_Equinox wrote:First paragraph - Intro into the problem/map wipe
I appreciate a more legitimate response element and finally having something that keeps us apprised of the current situation of things. (Something that should be done more often seeing as people have logged into the server before and were like...did the map wipe again :o ?)

My response to what you have told us:

Yes I, and I'm sure others as well, understand that we don't want people cheating to get stuff, but all I have to say is the noitem exploit seemed rather less then obvious to me and was happened upon by accident from what I understand. How many people here sat around for hours on end trying to find an exploit in the plugin? I sure as hell wouldn't have wasted the time. Sure maybe 1 or 2 people did. Didn't mean to sound ass-ish there, really. The real frustration about the map wiping's is that whenever it seems that something wrong is found we wipe because that seems like the only solution to make sure the exploited stuff is gone. Yes we can't find out who may have exploited but wiping every time we find a problem really shouldn't be the solution unless all other avenues have proved fruitless.
Element_Equinox wrote:Second paragraph - Mining turtles
Didn't really know much about this so thanks for keeping us up to date with that.
Element_Equinox wrote:Third paragraph - item transferring when map wipe is truly necessary
I know we wouldn't want people to be able to keep items they got by exploiting something or something that is actually blacklisted. That's why I suggested just machines, solars, a few tools and cables would be the only transferable things. Also what would be transferred would and should first be looked at thoroughly by an admin in just a single chest, because honestly a person shouldn't need more then that for just machines and the like as mentioned previously. Of course some of those things could have been gotten by exploiting something but honestly once that exploit is dealt with they can't do it again and all they are left with is their machines and we could even just limit it to one of each of those machines to try and make it fair in a sense because at least then most people would be happy.
Element_Equinox wrote:Fourth paragraph - wrap up
It may not be so obvious as purposefully not telling us but some of these decisions are made so fast that the community barely has time to find out about it and express any opinions on it. I also know that people are trying to get things worked out smoothly, but the thing is they aren't going smoothly, if they were people wouldn't be disappointed and frustrated with the way things are. That is why I suggested way to ease the frustrations that people feel when a map wipe is decided as necessary.

I do appreciate what you have said and informed us about and hope others will continue to express their opinions provided they are central to the topic.

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Re: Tekkit - Venting My Thoughts

Post by dobby_ashy »

I have been away for personal reasons, there's no need to be a fucking dick. I gave you a solution that will work, Whether you like it or not, don't get arsy. I'm not saying completely leave, and i do care about the community, ive been here for long enough. Just sit it out, and the higher-ups will sort it out. No doubt there will be threads on the forum about it, and if its really that big of a problem, which it must be for you to make a bitch post then decide to take it out on me, it will get sorted.

For now, bare with it, take my suggestion or calm the fuck down. Jheeze.
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Re: Tekkit - Venting My Thoughts

Post by Element_Equinox »

Dobby, I'm going to ask that you leave this thread alone. You're not involved with tekkit, you're fairly uninformed with what's been happening, and I have a problem with staff members telling people to leave the server.

Stain, I was just trying to point out recent decisions. I wasn't trying to give my own view because I'm also frustrated with how things are going at the moment. I would give my opinion, but honestly I don't want to type much.
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Re: Tekkit - Venting My Thoughts

Post by StainlessBlood »

dobby_ashy wrote:Stuff
Clearly there is no way to explain things to you without taking them personally so I'm not going to bother. But I do have to say calling my thread a "bitch post" is not only not appreciated but highly disrespectful of the thoughts and opinions of not only mine but of others as well, because I'm not alone in feeling this way. Being a staff member, and saying such things is also highly out of character of what I would expect from someone in such a position as well.
Element_Equinox wrote:Stain, I was just trying to point out recent decisions. I wasn't trying to give my own view because I'm also frustrated with how things are going at the moment. I would give my opinion, but honestly I don't want to type much.
Yea I kinda figured that, I was just trying to continue to clear up other points you had made as to make my suggestions a little more clear and fair in the spirit of the game. Sorry if it felt directed in that way. Also, if you do end up typing out your opinion I'd be glad to read it.

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Re: Tekkit - Venting My Thoughts

Post by anal_blazer »

Ugh...

I hope there isn't a map wipe.

Tekkit is too damn hard to keep wiping maps like this.

It's taken me 2 damn months just to get a small home with a shitty watermill for power.

If it's necessary, I moved to put mobs back at there normal power...so it doesn't take me another 2 damn months just to get to a point where im not dieing form 1 arrow from a skelly or hunger.

lol

I suck a Tekkit, apparently.

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Re: Tekkit - Venting My Thoughts

Post by Lim-Dul »

Even though I'm not involved with Tekkit I want to touch upon two generic points that apply to all our servers and were a "make or break" kind of affair, always.

1) Why not trust players to not exploit something and why "punish" everybody instead of just the offenders?

Very often exploits leave the world in an imbalanced, unrecoverable state - wiping is the most efficient way of dealing with that. It happened in the past and might happen again, it's a sad state of affairs but that's how it is.
When it comes to trusting players - it's not a question to the management, is it? It's rather a question of whether the players actually do respect the no-exploit rules when something is discovered and sadly this never happens - not for everybody on the server, at least. In these cases I think one should focus their wrath more on the particular people rather than the system, right? It's like being more upset about the fact that the law couldn't protect your family from being murdered by a maniac than the maniac himself.

2) Why are decisions taken without player input?

Trust us, we take a lot of player input and there are a lot of talks about all difficult decisions. Remember that most of our managing staff are or have been MC players as well, so we fully understand how certain decisions can affect the player base. The thing is - you can never please everybody. With a map wipe, some legit players will complain, without one, other people who are now at a disadvantage will rage.

It's been going on like that forever and ever, since the very first time we ran SMP and e.g. some admins abused powers to build themselves castles out of diamond blocks.

Generally speaking I think that carrying over builds should be made possible, provided the builds were not made by abusing bugs as well but this might have some limitations or hurdles that I am not aware of at the moment.

In the end, though, please keep in mind that as much time as you spend in Minecraft and as impressive as your builds might be, it's still a virtual non-tangible world so you have to cope with the fact that sometimes things will go awry and you will lose your stuff. Beginning anew is part of Minecraft and there's not much you can do with a finished project once it's finished apart from gawking at it and taking screenshots or recording videos.
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Re: Tekkit - Venting My Thoughts

Post by Arkaunis »

Lim-Dul wrote:1) Why not trust players to not exploit something and why "punish" everybody instead of just the offenders?

Very often exploits leave the world in an imbalanced, unrecoverable state - wiping is the most efficient way of dealing with that. It happened in the past and might happen again, it's a sad state of affairs but that's how it is.
The problem associated with this particular situation is the lack of evidence of it being abused though. I was behind the last wipe, but with a lack of proof (that I've heard of) and a somewhat sudden decision with little notification to the players until they saw the server was down, I disagree entirely with this one. One wipe or a couple is okay to fix and bang out a couple bugs, but more than that starts to hurt the players reliability in the stability of a server where they can finish something before it's wiped.
StainlessBlood wrote:Yes I, and I'm sure others as well, understand that we don't want people cheating to get stuff, but all I have to say is the noitem exploit seemed rather less then obvious to me and was happened upon by accident from what I understand. How many people here sat around for hours on end trying to find an exploit in the plugin? I sure as hell wouldn't have wasted the time. Sure maybe 1 or 2 people did. Didn't mean to sound ass-ish there, really.
Sure, we don't want people to cheat to get items, but as Stain perfectly explains here, there aren't many players that are willing to put in the effort to find those exploits.

There are a few facts that have to be taken into consideration. The first is that we have to come to the understanding not all people are trustworthy. There will be those people that will try to find those exploits. Even though from what I saw, most of our Tekkit players were veterans or staff of the community. The second fact is that there are almost always going to be exploits. Why reset it every time these reoccurring and seemingly endless exploits appear? What if a new exploit appears in 1.4 in a plugin when we update? Are we going to wipe it then as well?
Lim-Dul wrote:The thing is - you can never please everybody. With a map wipe, some legit players will complain, without one, other people who are now at a disadvantage will rage.
This is true, but so far with this situation, it appears there is a vast consensus against the idea.

A lot of us understand the concept that the maps aren't always 100% permanent, but the issue that's being addressed is the consistent restarting that they do within a seemingly short period of time. They also understand that management is doing the best they can and it's obvious that they can't please everybody.

Besides, as far as I am concerned, the wipe is not a 100% thing. So in theory, they are actually listening to the player's opinions. Just because they don't always respond on irc to a sudden rant, it doesn't mean they don't take them or topics like this into consideration.


On the note of turtles:
Sharing code is one player helping another player. Why is it a possibility that we are removing something that encourages the very thing we were trying to emphasize in Tekkit to begin with? Don't tell a young kid to share his toy, and then take it away because everyone is being too loud while having fun with it. (Poor analogy, but you get the idea)

Sure, one person may have designed the code, but the creator of the code was the person who decided to share the code in the first place. They could have easily just said, "No thank you. I'd like to keep it a personal code since I made it myself." However, if you expected people to hoard the code for themselves, you'd more than likely be giving them an advantage over other players. The few people I saw coding turtles have some coding background. I personally do not beyond basic coding, and I do mean basic. Why punish someone for a skill that they may not have time to acquire outside of the game. You can't expect things to be equal with disadvantages like that.


Those are just some of my personal thoughts and opinions. As far as I know, the map wipe isn't 100% going through at this point in time and I doubt it will, lets not be hasty and assume it will automatically be wiped.
Last edited by Arkaunis on October 27th, 2012, 11:57 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Tekkit - Venting My Thoughts

Post by StainlessBlood »

Lim-Dul wrote:Even though I'm not involved with Tekkit I want to touch upon two generic points that apply to all our servers and were a "make or break" kind of affair, always.
This is always fine by me, because as it stands some of this was directed at how things are done not just in Tekkit but in others as well.

My response:
Lim-Dul wrote:Your first point
I understand what you mean by this because I agree with the fact that people can not be trusted to not take advantages when and where they can get them. The problem around the topic is when it comes time to deal with such exploits. When the problem is fixed, whether through a new plugin or something of the like we wipe the map afterwards. If the only way to get rid of the exploited items is a wipe, so be it but there has to be a compromise as to what we can do after the wipe occurs, which is where the suggestion of transferring stuff over comes into play. With regards to Tekkit, allowing a player to transfer some machines, tools, solar arrays, and cables and nothing more then these, not only does a player who has started once get a chance to continue exploring the wide range of things Tekkit offers, it allows him/her to do so without the necessity of doing the tediously menial task they have already had to do on more then one occasion now - and that is starting from scratch and trying to find that first piece of coal or whatever. With the option to take a limited amount of machines and the like, as mentioned above, people can choose to start from scratch or continue to explore all the different things they can make without having to struggle to get enough power and whatnot before they can actually make something nice.

Lim-Dul wrote:Your second point -
Remember that most of our managing staff are or have been MC players as well
Its this part that I've always had a "problem" with because yes their is player input but where are those players, the ones that have been players, ones that we don't see playing all to often anymore except maybe in freebuild. I take SMP as an example of this, "our trustee's are the ones that decide how things play out" - poorly quoted but along the lines of what I've been told before. On SMP I didn't see trustee's play much because they didn't play it much and yet they were the ones deciding everything. The people that play it daily are rarely given chances to provide input on matters and they are the player base. If decisions are to be made wouldn't it be best to get the full range of input? I really wish this, if anything, is the one thing anyone who reads this takes away from this post. And I thank you for actually raising such a point for me to express my own thoughts on just this area.

As for the rest of your points I agree that this is always how it will be which is why i suggested what I had, limited machine and tool transfer to keep the legit players active and relatively happy. As for the other side new players will always be disadvantaged and they have no choice but to realize that, but that can be remedied if they team up with an already established player or other new players to help move them along faster.
Lim-Dul wrote:Final statement
This should be clear to anyone as we know that it is not real but the time we put into what we do is real. In Tekkit though we have not had a chance yet to get to a point where we can say we finished anything on it even though we've tried many times to begin something we want the chance to finish, and by build transferring this can be accomplished if there is a way to transfer them. Minecraft like other games is just that, a game, but it is also a way for people to escape their daily lives, relieve stress, and do so creatively by expressing themselves artistically. People want a chance to finish the things they make and if it is to be erased before they get a chance to do so that is where we feel our time has truly been wasted.

EDIT: Forgot one thing - thanks for taking the time out for your input.
Arkaunis wrote: Just because they don't always respond on irc to a sudden rant, it doesn't mean they don't take them or topics like this into consideration.
This is why I wanted to create the post because, if you post it they will come. No but seriously by posting it they at least get to see the communities input in one place without having to scroll a lot through IRC chat logs.

I thank you for you're input as well Arkaunis. I have read what you have said and find myself in agreement with what you have said.

EDIT: Thanks to all the others as well for the input you have given.

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Re: Tekkit - Venting My Thoughts

Post by burn22 »

I agree pretty much to the last 2 posts.

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Re: Tekkit - Venting My Thoughts

Post by Ollieboy »

Ugh I will get to reading this as soon as possible but rest assured.

THERE WILL BE NO MAP WIPE. Rwojy was just being super dramatic because he found a way that somebody could place banned items. I am not doing that again. I was all ready reluctant to wipe it the first time.

And in regards to information about the server status, you KNOW that I always do my best to let everybody know what is happening. Everything that has been discussed in this thread was discussed before I heard any of it. Rest assured that there will be no large scale changes. We accepted from the start that EVEN THOUGH it is whitelisted, and EVEN THOUGH everybody agreed to not fuck the game up, they absolutely would and have. So aside from being super fucking disappointed in everyone, I am not going to wipe everything just because of one little bug.

EDIT: More stuff;

Now fuck, everyone calm the hell down. Nobody needs to rage at Dobby and Dobby doesn't need to rage at anyone. Dobby's "solution" was good for the players and not for the server, however. We made a server for people to play, not for rwojy and I to dick around on and run our way.

However people throw lots of considerations out there about transfers and whatnot, and you need to realise that tekkit is not an easy thing to work with. The shear amount of custom blocks fucks a lot of transfer possibilities up, however this is not required. It IS however, something to keep in mind when suggesting other things. Keep in mind that we all ready have a non-wipey solution, but behold, the power of gossip.

Now, in saying all of this, you do need to realise that all this caught up with me in the last hour, and I have in the past done my absolute best to make any hard decisions such as new maps and whatnot as easy on the players as possible, so I will not accept people saying that higher ups are doing this with no consideration for players. No major decision will be made on tekkit without my approval, and just because I have been busy and not here does not mean that I don't give a fuck and will just do whatever I want. That is not fair to say.
<TKB> Hit_Girl: zombies don't hurt
<TKB> Hit_Girl: weird.
<TKB> Hit_Girl was slain by Zombie

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Re: Tekkit - Venting My Thoughts

Post by StainlessBlood »

Ollieboy wrote:Ugh I will get to reading this as soon as possible but rest assured.
I do appreciate that you will get to reading this when possible, Sorry for how long winded it is.
Ollieboy wrote:THERE WILL BE NO MAP WIPE. I am not doing that again.
I am glad to hear that as others are I'm sure. I know I did a little venting about how frustrating it was to just be told suddenly "maps probably gonna get wiped" and then have no information about why and whether or not steps to avoid it had been attempted. I was making an attempt to provide a place to put thoughts forward on what could keep people satisfied in the event of a map wipe.
Ollieboy wrote:And in regards to information about the server status, you KNOW that I always do my best to let everybody know what is happening.
I do and appreciate it, but when you're busy, there should be a reliable second to give information and make it accessibly known to everyone and not just said in game or in IRC at some random moment. Occasionally this is what happens and people come back to find things different and are upset for not being informed and just having it thrust suddenly upon them. The last wipe can attest to that, several people came on the next day and said "whoa did the map wipe again." I'm really not trying to berate anyone I'm just trying to express the opinions of those that have felt the same frustration.

Ollieboy wrote:However people throw lots of considerations out there about transfers and whatnot, and you need to realise that tekkit is not an easy thing to work with.
I really don't know what to expect when it comes to it for sure, and I'm sure others don't as well and this information is useful. If there was found such a way to make transferring easier then I would hope that it would be considered and a compromise on such could be found based on what has been expressed in previous posts.
Ollieboy wrote:Now, in saying all of this, you do need to realise that all this caught up with me in the last hour, and I have in the past done my absolute best to make any hard decisions such as new maps and whatnot as easy on the players as possible.
I, myself, realize this as I have noticed that you have been busy and not around based on not seeing you in IRC or anything. I also do realize that you put effort into making it easy on players at times as demonstrated with the old SMP. What has worried me the most is that, "when in doubt, wipe the map" was going to be the fall back when something didn't work out right and then be told that we're just gonna have to start from scratch each time.

Ollieboy wrote:So I will not accept people saying that higher ups are doing this with no consideration for players.
Then just consider this thread as being such a method of taking into consideration the thoughts and opinions of the players on the topic of map wiping. When a decision that is going to affect the server and the people that play it, it is nice to have a forum topic about it to hear and consider the thoughts of the people that play it and nice for people to give those opinions.
Ollieboy wrote:just because I have been busy and not here does not mean that I don't give a fuck and will just do whatever I want. That is not fair to say.
I'm sorry if you felt that way but I do understand well enough how busy you can be. I myself am a full-time engineering student as well as working a few hours a week as well as trying to hold onto a semblance of a social life outside of classes, it's tough and takes up a lot of time. It certainly was not my intention to direct absolute blame on one person, nor say or expect them to always be around to fix and have a handle on things right when they happen. If you felt I was not being fair in this respect I hope that you can accept that it was not my intention to do so.

Once again I appreciate the time you take at reading this.

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Re: Tekkit - Venting My Thoughts

Post by Jjb14 »

In the midst of this doom and gloom thread I thought I would just point out that this
StainlessBlood wrote:Minecraft like other games is just that, a game, but it is also a way for people to escape their daily lives, relieve stress, and do so creatively by expressing themselves artistically.
is a beautiful quote.
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Re: Tekkit - Venting My Thoughts

Post by Lim-Dul »

Jjb14 wrote:In the midst of this doom and gloom thread I thought I would just point out that this
StainlessBlood wrote:Minecraft like other games is just that, a game, but it is also a way for people to escape their daily lives, relieve stress, and do so creatively by expressing themselves artistically.
is a beautiful quote.
It might be beautiful in theory but in the span of almost three years of running/watching over a Minecraft community I haven't seen a game with a greater amount of prolonged, serious drama - this thread being part of it. ;-)
War does not determine who is right - only who is left. - Bertrand Russell

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Re: Tekkit - Venting My Thoughts

Post by Arkaunis »

You've clearly never ran a Call of Duty or League of Legends community. :P
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Yellow beauty burns gold

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Re: Tekkit - Venting My Thoughts

Post by rwojy »

I feel I should say something. I get you are all angry, and yes, it was for the most part my fault. But well, shit happens. I'm not perfect, I make mistakes. It's just, when I make a mistake, it's the kind of thing that could corrupt everything. I'm under quite a bit of stress, because I want this server to work, to be fun, to be good. But you, the players, need to realize is that like I said, shit happens, and sometimes there's only two solutions, wipe the shit, or to play in the shit.
etc

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Re: Tekkit - Venting My Thoughts

Post by StainlessBlood »

Lim-Dul wrote:...seen a game with a greater amount of prolonged, serious drama - this thread being part of it. ;-)
I'm not gonna beat something to death here but I do have a statement I would like to put forward regarding things being called drama.

When there are people, from all ranks within a community, sharing mutual frustration over something casting it off as a single person causing drama can be disastrous, when it should be taken as genuine and evaluated. When its taken seriously and not just shrugged off, this in turn can only make the community better, stronger and more unified and therefore a better place to be. But yes when it is only one person that seems to be instigating a riot, so to speak, it probably could be shrugged off as just someone looking to cause drama.
rwojy wrote:I want this server to work, to be fun, to be good.
Believe me, we are all glad to hear it and we want to do our best to help you do it, use us players as a tool to make that happen. Take our input when and where you can get it, because we aren't always useless. Thank you for taking the time to give us some input.

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Re: Tekkit - Venting My Thoughts

Post by Lim-Dul »

Arkaunis wrote:You've clearly never ran a Call of Duty or League of Legends community. :P
I've been a long-time HoN player, the HoN community being worse than anything I've seen before when it comes to pure rage and insults alone.

Still, in the three years of minecrafting I've seen it all.
War does not determine who is right - only who is left. - Bertrand Russell

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Re: Tekkit - Venting My Thoughts

Post by Sanjar Khan »

It takes rwojy a hell of a lot more time all the time to manage tekkit than it does to play on it. Better wipe and whatnot now than a few months in. I don't mind starting over a bunch of times. Minecraft has no endgame for me.
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